Chemically Insane

An Interview with Anthony Roberts
by Chris Shugart

From 1981 to 2000, the underground world of performance enhancing drugs revolved around a man named Dan Duchaine. Dan was a chemical maverick: smart, creative, edgy, and perhaps a little crazy. He wrote books on the subject, he introduced American bodybuilders to clenbuterol and DNP, he helped Olympic athletes beat drug tests, and he went to prison more than once for his involvement in black market drug labs.

Since his death in 2000, many "gurus" have tried to fill Dan's shoes. None of them so far have had that spark of un-scrupled edginess that defined Duchaine. But talking to new T-Nation contributor Anthony Roberts, one begins to see a glimmer of that spark. Roberts has also written a book on steroids, has also done some time in the clink, and also seems to be a bit, well, nuts.

Sounds like just the kind of person we like to interview.

T-Nation: Anthony, you've written a book on 'roids: Anabolic Steroids: Ultimate Research Guide. What makes you such an expert?

Anthony Roberts: Well, certainly not my college education. I have a degree in English and one in Philosophy, and I did my minor in Women's Studies. So that's really not too relevant to my field. I suppose it's as relevant as Dan Duchaine's degree in Theatre Arts, though! I don't think I've actually ever said "I'm an expert" but quite a few other people have said it about me.

What makes me knowledgeable about steroids? Well, I hope I'm reasonably bright, and I've spent the entire last decade researching them. If you add it all up, I've written thousands of pages worth of articles and profiles on anabolic steroids.

Each page that I've written probably amounts to a hundred pages or more that I've read to be able to produce that one page of writing. I was joking about this to Dave Tate and told him that even though I'm known as a "writer," it would be more accurate to say that I'm a "reader" since I do about a 100 times more reading than writing!

I think that it's not just about the reading and researching, though. I've used basically all of the drugs I write about, so I have practical as well as theoretical knowledge in their use. That's the thing that I hope distances me from the pack. I've actually used steroids to compete at an elite level in athletics, do a little modeling, and get a lot bigger and stronger.

I guess, if I can make a claim to be an expert, it's because I know what works — and not just on paper, but in the real world too.

T-Nation: How did you first get into steroids and related drugs?

AR: I was about sixteen years old and I'd started reading all the muscle magazines. Just in case anyone wants to know what was going on in those magazines at the time, EAS wasn't around yet and Met-Rx came in two separate canisters, "Base" and "Plus," because the ingredients were claimed to be so powerful that they were unable to be combined in the same container.

You could buy colostrum in the back of the magazines (where it was claimed to be more anabolic than steroids) and Cybergenics was the best selling supplement/program on the market. No, really, this is the bullshit that was going on at the time.

I was reading Duchaine and Muscle Media 2000, and saw that there was a noticeable lack of bullshit in Dan's work. So I basically read everything he ever wrote, past and present, by the time I was eighteen. I was totally hooked, and my bullshit quota had been more than filled by the various other writers in the field.

I read Dan's stuff and then started branching out and doing my own research in medical journals by the time I was nineteen. That's also when I did my first cycle.

T-Nation: You've written that you pretty much stay on steroids all year long. Seriously? Is there a safe way to do that or are you just insane?

AR: Well, yeah, there's a safe way to do it. You're on Testosterone right now. It's been flowing through you since you were born, and it's been converting into dihydrotestosterone and estrogen and doing all kinds of things in your body. I'm on it too, just a lot more, and I'm putting it into me, not relying on my body to produce it.

Am I always safe about it? No, admittedly, I'm not always safe about the chemicals I put into my body, and I certainly use more than just Testosterone. Crazy? I don't know about that, but I get blood work pretty regularly, and don't usually go too nuts with my dosages and drug choices.

T-Nation: So, given your year round use of steroids, how big are you now?

AR: I'm not really too big. I'm 5' 7"and maintain about 205 pounds with single digit bodyfat. I still play a sport at a very competitive level, and can't get too big while at the same time maintaining the speed, flexibility, and agility I need to compete.

As an athlete, I've competed (and continue to compete) at a level that put me in the top 14 players for my age and position in my sport for two consecutive years. But I'm not too big. Thankfully, that's not a goal of mine.

T-Nation: Can you give us an example of what a cycle of yours might look like? Since you stay on almost all the time, I'm guessing these might be lighter dosages.

AR: For a good part of the year, I cruise on just Testosterone and maybe another mild drug. When I really go "on" it's a different ballgame.

I tend to use Testosterone, Masteron, Boldenone (no ester) and maybe some other stuff on occasion. I've done over four grams a week (4100mgs) of injectables, but now keep my cycles to a gram per week or less.

Currently, I'm using Testosterone, Masteron, and Nandrolone Phenylpropionate. I'll probably switch that up though and change some doses around because I have a photo shoot coming up.

With regards to typical bodybuilding cycles, I use low to moderate doses; for an athletic cycle, I'm on the heavier side of use. I like the stuff that doesn't bloat me and keeps my strength up.

As to the actual brands and types of products I use, I tend to like the custom and underground stuff. I mean, no major pharmaceutical house has produced Masteron or Trenbolone in years, and you can't get the cool and interesting esters on the really nice injectables anywhere but from the underground labs.

I've basically always used a particular underground lab called Stark Labs, and have experimented with most of the big underground labs on the market today: International Pharmaceuticals, M-Labs, D-Pharm, DL-Labs, Paper Anabolics, Stealth Injectables, etc. I've used them all.

T-Nation: What's the single craziest thing you've ever done involving steroids or related drugs?

AR: I've messed around with a bunch of stuff that could've killed me. DNP comes to mind, as does insulin. The DNP I actually did at a dose that was a bit higher than the lowest recorded lethal dose. I don't know if those are "crazy" drugs, but they could've definitely killed me if I fucked up.

I also got pretty dizzy from a glucose dispersal agent once (Glucophage) and that was a bit scary. I knew I was lapsing into a slight coma (which I prevented once I realized what was up). In retrospect, having done two separate drugs that could've killed me is maybe a little weird...

One really weird thing that I did awhile back was that I started getting slightly painful nipples (gyno) from a cycle where I was using some pretty high doses of steroids that aromatize to estrogen. I didn't have any aromatase inhibitors on hand, which is kind of a silly mistake on my part. This was awhile ago, and the soonest I was going to be able to get my hands on some Arimidex or whatever was a week.

Nicotine, however, is a well known inhibitor of the aromatase enzyme, and that's one of the reasons women who smoke have lowered estrogen levels. Anyway, I went to the drugstore and got some nicotine gum and used that until I could get a proper aromatase inhibitor. My gyno pain and symptoms went away in about two days. It's not perfect, and was poor planning on my part, but it worked.

T-Nation: Interesting. Okay, Anthony, let's get down to the nitty-gritty. You're an ex-con. How'd you get put in the slammer?

AR: Possession of ecstasy, first offence, with no intent to distribute. I served six months and fifteen days for that.

I guess, in retrospect, it was good because most other figures in my profession get thrown in jail well after they're established writers. It's basically something on the CV of every writer in the field. I just happened to do it before I got a degree of notoriety, so at least that's over with.

T-Nation: Dan Duchaine was a two-time convicted felon; Bruce Kneller (a.k.a. Brock Strasser) has been charged with possession with intent to distribute steroids; Patrick Arnold is taking heat for making "the Clear" for BALCO... You gurus in this field get in a whole lot of trouble, and you've already had some troubles of your own. So, um, are we going to read about you in the paper soon?

AR: Man, I hate that "guru" tag. Okay, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if I made an appearance in the papers. I'm not distributing steroids, and I'm not making any steroids, and I'm not doing anything but using them, but Christ, it's a high-risk field, and I do see myself as a bit of a lightning rod for trouble like this.

Duchaine went to prison for making stuff and mailing stuff out. Kneller was certainly running an underground lab, and Patrick (allegedly) was producing a designer steroid. I don't do any of that stuff. I went to prison already, and I'm not eager to go back, even though I had a lot of time to read and learn about steroids.

Actually, it's only after I came out that I started writing professionally about steroids: six and a half months is a decent amount of time to be reading about steroids. Although I read up to a thousand (often more) pages a week in prison, I'm not eager to do that much research again anytime soon.

It's kind of funny, too, but I get tons of e-mail threats and stuff like that. Maybe I'll be in the paper for being stalked. You know, people who want to "find me" or whatever, and kick my ass because I said something or other in something I wrote. I have more than my share of Internet "fans" who take things a bit too seriously.

T-Nation: Speaking of that, Anthony, almost all T-Nation authors have their haters, but you seem to have more than your share. What's the deal?

AR: Actually, I'm glad you asked. I have the fortune of having haters on both the pro and anti side of the steroid fence: the anti-steroid crowd hates me for telling the truth, and ironically, that's why the pro-steroid crowd hates me! The anti-steroid crowd freaks out when someone says steroids are okay and can be used safely, then backs it up with some real facts and references.

But, there's always going to be people with vested interests, especially on the Internet, be it to promote their company, lab, book, or whatever. You need to remember, this isn't the average member of a discussion board. This is typically one guy with a vested interest, or a vocal minority who has all day to jack-ass around on the Internet, playingrecreational steroid guru under some absurd screenname. But I think the hate for me kind of stems from the same general place.

I really have a low threshold for bullshit, and I have no problem calling it like I see it. If a steroid discussion board sucks, and if the information on it is garbage, I'll say it. If a moderator or the owner of that board sucks, I'll say that too. And anyone who knows me will tell you that I say that particular line frequently.

Since I happen to have the good fortune of being a published author, I also happen to be able to say it loudly too. That doesn't sit well with a lot of people because I'm basically saying 99% of the Internet steroid discussion boards are garbage, and the average staff member/moderator (who's usually well-meaning but grossly undereducated about steroids) is usually just incorrect at least half the time. The other half of the time they're saying "bro" and shit like that.

Then there's the recreational steroid gurus and other assorted people who derive a lot of the identity and perceived status in their lives from being involved with steroid discussion boards. Like, you find people who are admins or mods on four or five different boards, and members of another three or four private boards. Losers!

There's people with, like, fifteen-fucking-thousand posts on some boards. What the fuck is going on in their lives that they have that much time to bullshit for free on the Internet about training and steroids? I get paid to do it, and I wouldn't have ten thousand posts if you added up every post I ever made!

T-Nation: That is kinda scary. Some of our worst trolls rack up 30,000-plus posts on various forums.

AR: I mean, it's one thing to bullshit about steroids on the Internet in your free time, but it's another thing to derive some kind of identity or self-worth from that. But when you think about it, if you derive that kind of self worth or identity from your time on the Internet, it really sucks when someone like me comes along and says you really don't have a clue about steroids, and that your site or message board blows. And it sucks because I'm credible in a "real world" way, meaning I literally wrote the book on steroids!

The real world, for anyone who's wondering or confused, is that thing that you live in when the power light on your laptop is not on. The guy people see when you walk down the street is who you are, not your avatar. You aren't your witty sig, or your pithy profile quotes.

Then there's, well, I've had a few indescressions with a couple of members of the opposite sex in my life, and some of them probably (still) hang out on the steroid boards. And well, that doesn't sit too well with their Internet friends, I would imagine. Oops. My mistake.

Then there's the guy who wrote the other currently selling steroid book. He doesn't like me because I'm the competition. He owns a nutritional company and writes a steroid book, and from the looks of him doesn't find much time to train anymore, if he ever did. Shit, oops, I suppose that comment won't get me back on his Christmas card list...

Would my book sell better if I catered to the people who hate me and told them what they want to hear instead of the truth? Sure, of course it would. But you know what? I'd rather tell the truth and be able to sleep at night knowing that the people who hate me do so because I put out good information about steroids and tell the truth regardless of who it pisses off.

Fuck, man, there are a lot of reasons to hate me. We may need a whole 'nother interview....

T-Nation: Glad you were able to get at least some of that off your chest! Let's move on, though. Anything new or upcoming out there in the chemical enhancement world that has you excited?

AR: Mechano Growth Factor is still pretty new, and it has a lot of people talking, but it's just an isoform of IGF-1. That's an emerging trend, and I think we're going to see various isoforms of IGF and other related areas available on the market soon.

It's kind of cutting edge I suppose, but I think we're going to see a lot of disappointment at first, and a lot of failed attempts with regards to dosing and finding particular isoforms or splices of certain genes that will give us the effects we're after. I mean, it's not that difficult to find out which isoform of which growth factor does what, and then contact GroPep or some other company, buy some, and market it as a research chem.

Secretagogues are going to be big too, if someone can bring them to the market cheaply. The big thing right now is that people are just buying the raw chemical powder, some lab supplies, and making their own injectables. I did that about four years ago when I lived in New Zealand, but I think it's a really risky thing to do now.

What happens when you get caught with not only steroids, but with a fucking machine for capping them, as well as filters, vials, and crimpers? You get charged as a dealer, that's what happens. It's the same legal difference as being caught with some meth and getting caught running a meth lab.

T-Nation: Ouch, not good. What, in your opinion, are some of the most overrated performance enhancing drugs out there?

AR: Well, I think a lot of the really expensive stuff is really just crap. I think that if you can't do it with just Testosterone, then it can't be done.

People love the stuff, but I think Oral Turinabol is really overrated. It's okay, and I'm not saying it isn't decent, but really, it's just a sexy drug because it was extensively used by the GDR state-run doping program.

Primobolan injectable has a great reputation as a cutting drug, but it's total garbage for most men, and the tabs are even worse. It's relatively expensive, even as a powder, and just isn't worth it.

Clen isn't too great for athletes, and I personally like ephedrine a lot more, to be honest.

T-Nation: Bodybuilders, if we can judge them by their enormous craniums and distended guts, seems to be shooting barrels of GH these days. Is that trend catching on in the athletic world?

AR: GH is pretty inexpensive now-a-days, as is IGF-1. I could get GH for less than a buck sixty a unit, if it was something I was interested in. Domestically, you're looking at around $500 for a kit of 100 IUs of GH, if you get it from a pharmacy.

On the black market, I can get underground GH from a lab for a quarter of that price. So I think a lot of people are able to afford more and so they're using more. And of course, just like most other chemicals, from Testosterone to alcohol, the more you use, the more results you get.

This is all because a lot of newer "brands" of GH are just basically produced by underground labs, located in parts of the world where they can legally set up shop and procure GH, rebottle it, slap a label on it, and sell it to athletes. If it isn't legally sold in a pharmacy anywhere in the world, or used anywhere in a hospital setting, then it's basically underground in my eyes, even if it's a legally operating lab.

T-Nation: What's going on out there in the world of non-muscle-building drugs used by bodybuilders? Nubain was hot a few years ago. Ecstasy was big, and probably still is. Anything new making the rounds?

AR: Well, ecstasy is still very big, as is cocaine. Another very well known steroid author is a bit of a pothead, as are the heads of quite a few nutritional companies.

Professional bodybuilding and recreational drugs are inexorably bound together, for better or for worse. Professional athletes are no saints, and cocaine, E, pot, and other drugs are just as popular with those athletes as they are with anyone. Probably even more so.

T-Nation: Why do you think so many athletes and bodybuilders also get involved with other non-performance enhancing drugs?

AR: Man, it's that type-A personality bullshit. Most of the people involved with bodybuilding or sports at a high level are total type-A kinda people. They're into all of that. They like to party, and when they do it's going to be as extreme as their training.

If you're the kind of person who takes your physical performance to the level where you're popping your ass every other day with a couple of CC's, then you're probably the kind of person who takes other things to extremes also, and that includes partying.

T-Nation: Back to steroids in sports, what should be done? Any way to stop it?

AR: Do we need to stop it? Is some NFL lineman doing a bunch of Testosterone some kind of societal issue that needs immediate attention? I really don't think so. Is the current Mr. Olympia — whoever that is — and his drug intake really affecting the average person?

T-Nation: Interesting point. Okay, on a personal note, I read that you're a vegetarian. Hold on a sec, meat is bad but steroids 365 days a year is okay? What's up with that?

AR: I just don't really see eating meat as beneficial to me. I don't like it, taste-wise, and really most of the arguments for it as some kind of great training food fall a bit flat. I was raised in an Italian household and eat a lot of seafood, but other forms of meat just didn't happen to show up in my diet. As a result, I haven't eaten meat in about a twelve or thirteen years.

T-Nation: Fair enough. What's up with this modeling gig you landed? So you're a steroid expert/model now?

AR: I did this modeling thing for Ralph Lauren awhile ago. I was at a team practice and there were some scouts hanging around, looking for some people to be in the background of a Rugby-based fashion spread for this magazine, Sport & Style. So they took some head shots of me and brought them to the photographer. The agency called me back to be involved with the shoot.

I was under the impression that I'd be in the background or something, but I actually think I appeared on a couple of pages, and one of them was a full page picture of my face. I actually did it just for fun, but the photos came out alright, and I made it into the magazine. So I got a couple of calls after that about it. It's not something I'm going to really pursue, but it was definitely a cool experience. Just luck, really.

T-Nation: What final bit of advice would you offer the T-Nation reader who's thinking about trying steroids?

AR: Do your research! Buy a book on steroids, even if it isn't mine! Read it and learn about what you're putting in your body before you make a decision. Research isn't going on steroid discussion boards and talking to the "bro" who seems the smartest; it's putting in the hard work and doing some real research.

Going on the Internet and asking some questions, and reading some posts on some bullshit steroid discussion board, wouldn't even be enough "research" to write an 8^th grade level paper, yet it's enough "information" for most people to make an informed decision on whether or not to use steroids and what to put in their body? Bullshit. Wanna do steroids? Do some fucking research!

T-Nation: Good advice. Where can our readers find your book?

AR: They can find it at www.anabolicbooks.com. Amazon.com also has it.